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Re: Pa State Parks
Just to reiterate, no one had an alcoholic beverage at or near the campsite during or before this raid by Clear Creek State Park staff..Although, I am well aware that normally having a concealed beverage quietly around the campfire is almost status quo at parks. Before arriving I had heard rumors about Clear Creek State Park and its sister park , Cook Forest State Park, from locals and made sure our site would not be consuming alcohol. The rumors concerned over zealous, above the law rangers. I have found those rumors to be true.
That said, I always enjoy when folks who start threads take the time to let me know the outcome of those threads.
After calling, emailing , postal mailing and FedExing letters to the park manager, his supervisor the regional manager, the state parks bureau director, two state representatives, one senator and a governor (governor never replied, three attempts) (state Rep in the parks region never replied)The three rangers and their manager have received formal (written) discipline concerning this incident and I have received a wealth of knowledge about what our rights as citizens are and to some degree how by not knowing them we give them away.
As my previous post indicated what these men did was not legal but I could not be sure of that until learning what was legal by reading pertinent sections of the PA crimes code and vehicle law handbook.
The Pa State Parks (DCNR) at no level informed me of my rights and refused to give specific guidelines as to what rangers can do.It appears the expected conduct changes from park to park. It’s also disappointing that it took so much effort and three months of constant pressure from 10 citizens to get this addressed.
While I never had anything to hide I hate the idea that as a “lowly citizen” someone can revoke my rights at their whim.Worse than that is getting rid of those few bad apples in these positions is extraordinarily difficult. I believe if the very same incident occurred in the private sector action would have been swift and meaningful.
I camped 30 plus years at PA State Parks before this incident so the chances of it happening again are probably slim, even so I have copied the sections out of the PA crimes code and vehicle law handbook addressing unwarranted searches and plan to have a review of these sections with any park staff that wants to search my belongings while video recording the entire event, noting their name, position and badge number. As I did this time I will state that I do not consent to any searches.I will then proceed through the civil court system.
In closing, I need to say that by far most PA State Parks are absolutely wonderful places, if I hadn’t felt that way I would not have put so much effort into bringing these three men into some accountability.My recommendation to anyone is not to be rude but to know your rights and insist they be honored.Thanks for everyone’s effort and insights on this, Dave
Just to reiterate, no one had an alcoholic beverage at or near the campsite during or before this raid by Clear Creek State Park staff..Although, I am well aware that normally having a concealed beverage quietly around the campfire is almost status quo at parks. Before arriving I had heard rumors about Clear Creek State Park and its sister park , Cook Forest State Park, from locals and made sure our site would not be consuming alcohol. The rumors concerned over zealous, above the law rangers. I have found those rumors to be true.
That said, I always enjoy when folks who start threads take the time to let me know the outcome of those threads.
After calling, emailing , postal mailing and FedExing letters to the park manager, his supervisor the regional manager, the state parks bureau director, two state representatives, one senator and a governor (governor never replied, three attempts) (state Rep in the parks region never replied)The three rangers and their manager have received formal (written) discipline concerning this incident and I have received a wealth of knowledge about what our rights as citizens are and to some degree how by not knowing them we give them away.
As my previous post indicated what these men did was not legal but I could not be sure of that until learning what was legal by reading pertinent sections of the PA crimes code and vehicle law handbook.
The Pa State Parks (DCNR) at no level informed me of my rights and refused to give specific guidelines as to what rangers can do.It appears the expected conduct changes from park to park. It’s also disappointing that it took so much effort and three months of constant pressure from 10 citizens to get this addressed.
While I never had anything to hide I hate the idea that as a “lowly citizen” someone can revoke my rights at their whim.Worse than that is getting rid of those few bad apples in these positions is extraordinarily difficult. I believe if the very same incident occurred in the private sector action would have been swift and meaningful.
I camped 30 plus years at PA State Parks before this incident so the chances of it happening again are probably slim, even so I have copied the sections out of the PA crimes code and vehicle law handbook addressing unwarranted searches and plan to have a review of these sections with any park staff that wants to search my belongings while video recording the entire event, noting their name, position and badge number. As I did this time I will state that I do not consent to any searches.I will then proceed through the civil court system.
In closing, I need to say that by far most PA State Parks are absolutely wonderful places, if I hadn’t felt that way I would not have put so much effort into bringing these three men into some accountability.My recommendation to anyone is not to be rude but to know your rights and insist they be honored.Thanks for everyone’s effort and insights on this, Dave
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