Personal Space

[James.]

Question. Do any of you visit your camping neighbors? And do you mind if people come into your camp?

I am currently camping and what I thought was a fantastic spot last night has turned into an apparent tourist attraction. There has beed a steady stream of people pulling up about 100' from my camp to take in the view and even eat lunch.

Right now there are 8 offroad vehicles.

There is no way I would do this to someone else. In fact, when looking for a spot yesterday I flat out turned around when I accidentely pulled up to other peoples camp.

I get that I don't own the outdoors and since they have as much right to be here as I do I will simply learn and never camp in this particular spot again. (I think there is an area with views just as good but a little more secluded not far from here) and its my fault for camping off an apparently busy road.

Just wondering what you guys think. I am not in a campground btw.

[MacGyver]

Re: Personal Space

Last year we had a couple pull right into our campsite offering to sell us firewood. We were immediately freaked out. They even went so far as to try to invite themselves to join the party in exchange for giving us the firewood for free. At that point it got creepy and scary enough to the point where those of us with guns made sure they were readily available. All that to say, JUST DON'T DO IT! You don't know them and they don't know you. If someone is foolish enough to walk up on strangers there's no telling what they're capable of doing. It was a bit different when I used to camp in crowded State Parks where the sites were right on top of each other. It wasn't too uncommon to talk to your neighbors and find yourself sharing a fire ring. But I can't imagine doing that in a more remote setting.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Personal Space

The answer is it depends;
If I am doing the hermit thing; then no one will be able to camp/drive/park close.

Some of the best parties we had started with a free case (for the loan of an off road welder, or similar help) .
Others have happened when some good ol' boys tried to take over our "easy to get to" campsite (drank all their liquor, ate all their munchies and smoked all their smokeables ran their batteries down playing music then helped shoot up all their ammo)... and had fun doing it! (unfortunately, perhaps fortunately; they left their womenfolk at home).
Some happened because we had a great campfire party going and the neighbors just wanted to join... fine with us; make yourselves 'ta home/pull up a stump....

A very few happened 'cause the neighbors were quiet and we got bored so we went call'in...
Several times lost folks (once Australians) didn't want to camp far from others in wild/unknown country... "You're welcome to share the fire lots of room for tents..." "... Yep! lots of bears hereabouts, and some mountain lions; but you likely won't see them..." "Got a map? you are about here."

Had to run some very strange beings off only twice...(when the dogs bear teeth on first meeting something is wrong).. both times in easy access camp sites.
Had a crank junkie (you can tell when you look into their eyes and nobody is home & the pacifier is also a good indicator) come out of the brush from an unexpected direction only once (I now camp armed).
Had a camp creeper only once... we try to always have at least one dog in camp now.

We usually end up with at least 2 vehicles worth of friends and occasionally as many as 10+ (enough to completely surround the large campfire ring with tarps, without gaps; one rainy weekend).
There seems to be a better class of folks where you need a substantial 4wd and driving experience, to get close to the party.

Enjoy!

[James.]

Re: Personal Space

So this was basically my fault. I was camping on the edge of a cliff in an area called the Mogollon Rim. Turns out I was on Rim Rd. which, as you may guess, is somewhat of a main road. I didn't have the gas to properly scout out other sites on my way home but did see a couple forest roads that looked promising. I will be back.

[toedtoes]

Re: Personal Space

I am not a space invader. I will avoid a spot if there are people already there.

I went camping this weekend at my favorite campground in my favorite campsite. The site sits just above the deep part of the creek. When I look at it, the campsite space seems perfectly separated from the communal creek space - there are boulders and trees surrounding a flat area with a picnic table and firepit: aka "the campsite". And there is a definite trail from the road to the creek that skirts the outside of those trees and boulders.

When I arrived, a truck pulled up and a woman asked if she could quickly get a photo by the creek. I had to point out that the creek and its bank were NOT part of my campsite and they were free to enjoy it - just use the trail.

On Friday, 7 families showed up for camping get together. A TON of kids! I'm sitting in my chair reading with my dogs on their leash at my side. Suddenly, Bat-dog jumps up and starts barking at the clipper. I turn and there is a young girl about 8 coming between the clipper and a tree (2ft max between them) straight at my picnic table. When Bat-dog started barking the girl froze in place shaking like a leaf. I simply said "just back up and go around the campsite". I don't think she'll ever cut through or barge into someone's site again. After that, I just asked the kids to go "around the tree" because the dogs see this side as their territory. They spent the weekend in the creek, I sat and watched them and relaxed. We all had a great time. The kids were really good about keeping to the trail. I did give them a reprieve when they were hauling rocks up to the bridge to toss over. Surprisingly, the parents were really great also. They didn't have a hissy fit if Bat-dog barked at their kids; they followed the same guidelines; and they were grateful that I didn't try to keep the kids off "my" side of the creek or cause a scene. It worked really well all around. I had my personal space and everyone got to enjoy the creek. In the past, I always ran into one adult who would cut through my site or let their dog enter my site and then give me the "well aren't you a witch" when I asked them to walk around.

As for joining in at someone else's campfire, I wouldn't dream of it, even if invited. Even as kids, we never socialized with the other campers - we stayed within our own group. But we always had friends or cousins camping with us.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Personal Space

...thus the difference between those who want to play hermit and those who don't mind some people, sometimes.
Personally, I would (usually) rather be part of the four wheeling community (when you are stuck far from civilization/maintained roads, sometimes you have to rely on the kindness of strangers)... and being stranger than some; be willing to give it.
However, I do much prefer camping far from traffic/civilization..

I wonder where the 2 bike riders that wandered in, lost, to the only winter/snow camp for miles (ours), displaying the classic signs of hypothermia (uncontrollable shivering and slurred speech), would be now if we had run them off...

Enjoy!

[toedtoes]

Re: Personal Space

I think there is a difference between needing assistance (whether directions, a safe place to sleep, etc) and simply joining a group of campers because they're there.

I think there is a difference between chatting with a fellow camper and making their acquaintance over a hobby or interest and taking that to the next level of "why don't you come join us for that" and simply inviting anyone and everyone to join you.

I am not a hermit. But I do like my privacy. I don't invite strangers into my home and my campsite is my home. Outside of the campsite, I am friendly and such, but don't just barge into my home for no reason. If you need help or such, fine, I'll be glad to help. But don't ask to join me/us just because - if I don't invite you, then go on your way.

[MacGyver]

Re: Personal Space

If you need help or such, fine, I'll be glad to help. But don't ask to join me/us just because - if I don't invite you, then go on your way.

What she said.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Personal Space

I suspect that there is also a basic difference in regional (population density) culture.

...Noticed a similar standoffishness when I moved from a smaller town to a larger city; never heard or saw privacy fences in the smaller town or folks that didn't know (or want to) their neighbors names, in the smaller towns.

To each their own...

One has to wonder, when people are unwilling to say, Howdy!

[toedtoes]

Re: Personal Space

I suspect that there is also a basic difference in regional (population density) culture.

...Noticed a similar standoffishness when I moved from a smaller town to a larger city; never heard or saw privacy fences in the smaller town or folks that didn't know (or want to) their neighbors names, in the smaller towns.

To each their own...

One has to wonder, when people are unwilling to say, Howdy!

It's not an unwillingness to say "howdy" - it's a desire to choose for yourself if you want to socialize in your own personal space and to select with whom you want to socialize.

This isn't about camping near others - it's about having others insert themselves into your camping experience.

And one could argue that it's not that people in larger towns are standoffish, but that people in small towns are busybodies.

[MacGyver]

Re: Personal Space

I think I can understand why someone would think that someone's home environment would affect how they react to people elsewhere. I've lived in places where people were sociable and places where they weren't, and what you have to deal with at home definitely has an effect on how you interact with others. But when it comes to camping I also think you have to keep in mind that there's always a chance that people are out there to get away from their home life and other people. When I'm home, I talk to strangers on the street and in stores. I strike up conversations with my customers on my service route. But, because I'm currently living in one of those areas where people are insulated and self-absorbed, that doesn't always go over too well. So, aside from the fact that I love to camp in the first place, I go camping to get away from asphalt, bricks and "people". All that to say, even though I consider myself a sociable creature, I wouldn't dream of approaching anyone in the woods, much less invite myself to join them. And I would expect the same courtesy/consideration in return.

[toedtoes]

Re: Personal Space

I think for me it's really about courtesy. I don't assume everyone wants my company all the time, and therefore, I wouldn't presume to put them on the spot like that.

I see it these two ways:

1. Hi! Oh you are all having so much fun, do you mind if I join you?
a. Sure, grab a seat!
b. Well, this is a private gathering and well..we really don't have space...well, it's just that we....

Or

2. Hi! You look like you're all having a great time!
a. We are, would you care to join us?
b. We are, thank you.

By inviting myself, or asking to be invited, I make it awkward on the other person to turn me down, and some folks will want to say no but aren't comfortable doing so. Maybe I'll get mad and torch their tents or something. The other way, it's simply they invite me or they don't and it's not a rejection of me if they don't.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Personal Space

I can see where you are coming from and tend to agree.

Enjoy!

[James.]

Re: Personal Space

It's not an unwillingness to say "howdy" - it's a desire to choose for yourself if you want to socialize in your own personal space and to select with whom you want to socialize.

This isn't about camping near others - it's about having others insert themselves into your camping experience.

And one could argue that it's not that people in larger towns are standoffish, but that people in small towns are busybodies.

This! Don't assume that because we have this hobby in common we should hang out. I don't even know you.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Personal Space

This! Don't assume that because we have this hobby in common we should hang out. I don't even know you.

..so many bristley outlooks...
Personally I won't know if I want to be acquainted with any one until I at least gauge their response to a greeting (thus the "Howdy")... once introduced and after getting acquainted (possibly hanging out for a bit) I can determine whether we can become friends..
(If I am doing the hermit mentality they almost certainly won't find or get close to camp; by my choice). IMO, trying to be a hermit in a crowded/easily accessible place would be an exercise in (self induced) frustration.
If some one decides to introduce themselves; there are many possible responses some much less friendly/sociable than others; I'm not above running undesirables out of camp.
or offering a beer, coffee and/or to let them sit and share the fire. (too many variables to make one call fit all, IMO). It all starts with the greeting. I at least try to be flexible enough to give opportunity a chance (usually).
Regularly folks stop to ask about campsites, and bears, in the area and I direct them to possibilities...so most conversations never get to the introduction stage. although their simply being able to get close enough to ask shows that we have several things in common; camping, love of the outdoors, four wheeling, a willingness to explore off the beaten track and take some risks, etc..

Enjoy!