Is there such thing as a "warm" 6/8 person tent?

[ctilly]

Just took the Kingdom 8 for a spin with my little family - 2 adults, 2 small kids. It's a fantastic tent but it is also pretty cold, maybe a couple of degrees warmer than the outside after 8 hrs in it. I'm trying to figure out if we'd be warmer in a smaller tent like the Big Agnes 6 or 8, or if as the guy at REI said "anything above a 4 person tent isn't going to warm up".

Is there any kind of volume/person rule of thumb for a tent that will warm up? Love the K8 but wish I could keep my family warm at night. :arf:

Thanks!

[a65hoosier]

Re: Is there such thing as a "warm" 6/8 person tent?

Hi ctilly and Welcome to the Forum!

In my opinion, no, not really. It is somewhat true that the smaller the tent, the easier it is to warm it up slightly by body heat, but I don't think there is some volume formula. Other factors such as tent material (amount of mesh and ventilation) and # of occupants also play a part in how warm the inside of a tent feels.

However, using body heat and human respiration to "warm" a tent satisfactorily really isn't the solution to keeping warm. Even if you could seal up the tent, you would end up with condensation all over the inside. Not to mention the humidity. A tent must ventilate or you'll end up damp and miserable inside due to your respiration. An adult exhales almost a litre of water during a typical 8 hour night-that's a lot of water you'll want to get out of the tent.

I do not know what sleep system you are using for your family members. Cots? Air mattresses? I assume you are not laying directly on the tent floor with a blanket. Knowing this would help with the advice we can offer.

I follow these basics to stay warm at night regardless of the outside temperature: Use a good sleeping bag; protect yourself from the cold below; wear fresh dry bed clothes/socks; and eat, exercise, and pee before bed.

1. Invest in a decent quality sleeping bag with an appropriate temperature rating for your camping conditions. Select a bag rated at least 10 degrees lower than the temps you expect to encounter. A good bag with proper maintenance and care will last a long time. Mummy style bags are generally warmer than rectangle bags (due to the smaller interior volume that your body must keep warm). However, mummy bags also may feel constrictive to many folks, esp those that toss and turn at night. Bag style is a personal choice kind of thing.
   
   
2. Pair the sleeping bag with either an insulated open cell air pad (Therm-a-rest is one brand-but there are others) or a closed cell foam pad. The pad goes directly under your sleeping bag (even on a cot---you have to get something between your sleeping bag and the cold air/ground). This prevents the cold air (lurking underneath your cot or air mattress) from "sucking" your body heat from you. When you sleep, all of your body weight is crushing the loft of your sleeping bag beneath you, thus reducing it's ability to keep your body heat "in the bag" and allowing the cold air under you a way to get "in the bag". A pad under you greatly reduces or eliminates this thermal transfer. Rather than asking REI staff about a warmer tent, ask their advice about pads. You'll hear about R values...shoot for something with an R value of 5. You can getaway with less R value for summer camping, need a little more in winter camping. This is subjective because we all sleep differently as to warm or cold (think of a couple in the same bed - one has the covers pulled up, the other one is roasting and laying there without any covers).
   
   You could also accomplish this by layering warm blankets such as wool under you and your bag. This really depends on you. I use a Therm-a-rest insulated self inflating pad with an R rating of 6.8. Coupled with a down sleeping bag, I have never been cold at night...even in winter camping with temps below freezing.
   
   
3. Having everyone change into dry warm "bed clothes" and socks is also a good way to increase sleeping warmth. Clothes (esp socks) that you have worn during the day contain moisture, oils, and dirt. You don't want to put that moisture into your sleeping bag and make your body work harder to heat that moisture. The fresh clothes will also keep your bag's inside cleaner and keep the oils away from the insulation. The less you need to wash a sleeping bag, the better it is for the insulation inside. A sleeping bag liner is used by many for just this purpose-at the end of a camping trip, pull out the liner and wash it.
   
   
4. Eat, exercise, and pee before bed. These may seem odd. The first two have to do with raising your body's metabolism prior to sleep. Hitting the restroom means your body doesn't have to work harder keeping a full bladder warm. Your body can focus it's attention on keeping other parts of you warm. And....you reduce the need to hop out of your warm sleeping bag to make a middle of the night run. lol

You could also use small chemical hand warmers that you activate by opening the package, shaking them a bit, and throwing them down inside your sleeping bag before crawling in. Heating water and putting it in a water bottle and putting it in your bag is also another option. They help somewhat, but are not a substitute for a good bag, pad, and warm sleep clothing.

***Of course...you can also go the other way and use external ways to heat the air in your tent with either a small electric ceramic heater or a propane style heater such as a Mr Heater Buddy. The Kingdom 8 is a large tent so you would have the appropriate clearances for a heater. However, with kids, I would caution the use of any heaters. Heaters that use propane generate harmful gases and they must be provided with plenty of ventilation. With any style heater, keep it well away from any combustion sources such as your sleeping bags, etc. If you have access to electric on your typical campsite, the electric style heater is a safer option...although you still need to make sure you have appropriate distance clearances.

Many folks just use a heater to take the chill out of a tent prior to going to bed and again in the morning before crawling out of their sleeping bags. Use only when awake with the ability to monitor the heater. To me personally, this is a reasonable way to use a heater.

Ultimately, for me personally, the safest way for a warm night is good sleeping bags, insulated pads, and dry fresh sleeping clothes.

Brian - a65hoosier

[craigthor]

Re: Is there such thing as a "warm" 6/8 person tent?

We use a tipi and switched from a wood stove to a propane stove, if you are comfortable installing a stove jack somewhere in your tent teh NuWay stoves are awesome. They vent to the outside which eliminates almost all the chances of carbon monoxide build up. Though a battery operated CO detector is cheap insurance. We run a 20# tank outside and get a couple of nights depending on how long we have it on.

Also another thing that helped greatly was adding a foam sleep pad under our air pads. I'm a fan of the Thermarest but choose your liking of products after research.

[Irate Mormon]

Re: Is there such thing as a "warm" 6/8 person tent?

What Hoosier said. A tent isn't going to keep you warm - it just keeps the rain and wind out (if you got a good one). The rest depends on your sleeping/clothing system.

[actad]

Re: Is there such thing as a "warm" 6/8 person tent?

I have a four person tent, but this might work on your bigger tent. I use reflective tarps in the tent when it is chilly - mine are the Grabber brand that are regular tarp on one side and shiny on the other side. I have the shiny side in when it is cold. It works quite well to raise the temperature to comfortable.

I just use binder clips to secure it on the wall near my cot using any existing interior loops or excess fabric. Unzipping the window a bit and clipping to the window cover works well (and gives a little bit of circulation), then the cot holds it in place as well.

(I did a variation inside my bedroom this past February when we lost electricity for several days in zero degree weather. I clipped the tarp to the curtain rod on the window behind my bed and had it hanging down behind the headboard. Really kept the drafts away while we slept.)